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http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/life/censorship-and-god-in-america-2501495/;_ylt=AhtztcHJ6E0qrsqg5sqrVsKkfqU5
Did you know that in the US, there are now 20% of us who do not believe in a God or subscribe to a religion. Yes, 20% is a minority, but we are a bigger minority than Blacks, Gays, Jews, NRA members and several other groups of note that seem to be able to sway government and public opinion in their direction without question. We are now the silent mass.
"Religious factions will go on imposing their will on others unless the decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no place in public policy. They must learn to make their views known without trying to make their views the only alternatives."
Barry Goldwater
Article 1 seems to be discussing the fact NBC cut out the "Under God" from a recent pledge of Allegiance on TV. Under God was not even how it was originally written or said. Yes that was added in 1954 folks, all because we didn’t want to be like the “Godless Commies”. If you will note some of the posters on this topic, they say everything from "liberal to Godless". Well, maybe NBC represents the only forward thinking people in this country. Question: what does Liberal have to do with being Godless? #2, what does being Godless have to do with anything? Maybe there is a significant group of us out there who do not believe, and do not want your ideals crammed down our throats anymore. Maybe we have finally spoken up to the subject, and want freedom from the constant hounding of religious speech, symbolism and doctrine in this nation as we were promised by the Constitution. I don’t care if you call it Christmas or a Christmas sale, in fact I do too… but I do not observe the specific religious meanings or stories behind the time of year, because I believe them to be faked. I take it as a time to reflect on those before me, those with me now, and the wonderful thing I have called life that my parents gave me and my family enjoys with me to this day. Not to beg forgiveness for things I do not understand, or to pay homage to a child that cannot be proven to have existed at all. It is a time to revel in the life that surrounds me, and those who came before me to get us all here.
I see and have read the 10 commandments.
Can we possibly review these 10 "Commandments" to see their relevance in today’s, or even society from 240 years ago?
They are stated in 2 Biblical books, and there are variables between the ones listed in Exodus, and the ones listed in Deuteronomy:
Exodus:
I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
1) Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
2) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; and showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. Any of you who have ever seen a planetarium, pictures of space, or a Space Shuttle launch are all
going to hell… likewise you folks that are geologists, looked at the grand canyon, been in coal mines etc… how about you submariners, or those who study the oceans and sea life? It looks as though you may be just as doomed as your scientific brethren. Do I really want a jealous person in control of my life? How many of you dumped boy or girl friends for the same act?
3) Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
So far I see nothing that translates to a law, or in fact anything to do with morality or kindness we are all told exist in the "LOVE" of a God. This is a vain twit who is afraid of losing you and your love/ money/ support, and threatens you accordingly.
4) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shoult thou labor and do all thy work but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work; thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it. Yeah, can't work a man to death, makes sense, but still not a law. Now you just have to pay him a little more money to do it.
Every man needs a off day. This is common sense more than a law.
5) Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. Nope, still not a law.
6) Thou shalt not kill. We are close to a law here, but not really. Kill what? Hunting? Fishing? or MURDERING MEN WOMEN AND CHILDREN? Which by the way, still happens in the great books these commandments come from. Hmmm.
7) Thou shalt not commit adultery. Yeah, OK. Not a law, and I dare you to find me the honest group.
8) Thou shalt not steal. An actual undeniable law.
9) Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. This happens everyday, not a law. unless you mean filing false charges, but talking bad without warrant or merit is a daily event.
10) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house; thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's. Well, all of you Capitalists are surely going straight to hell, because this is what our American system is built on. Coveting thy neighbor’s stuff...
On To Deuteronomy:
Basically the same garbage with a little more explanation from Moses about whence they came, fire in bush etc... And a few threats/ promises from God... Since most claim to be Christian, I will forego the opportunity to pick this book apart for now.
OK. First, isn't this the land of the free and home of the brave? If so free, why do we WANT to be servant to an unseen jealous father figure who really has not been proven to have done anything for this nation in any way good or bad? Home of the brave? Doesn't this mean we are brave enough to NOT have to have an unseen entity holding our "mystical hand" in times of trouble or need? Why do we have continual claims that our country was based on Christian fundamentals and beliefs? In fact it was not. There are 3 or 4 statements in the article of Founding Fathers about how much we are a nation under God etc... However, I can post at least 1000 from the same Founders that state this nation is not Christian, and the freedom of religion is as needed as the freedom FROM religion. They left England because the country was tied straight to the COE, the King, and taxes etc went to both whether you believed or not. They wanted the Freedom to choose not to believe, or to believe the way they saw fit. Not to be told how to believe, or that they were wrong if they were nothing more than Deists. We were being taxed by England on and for everything, but had no representation in their British Parliamentary Government, thus the term "Taxation without Representation". We still saw ourselves as Englishmen, and wanted equal and fair treatment from the Government we helped sponsor. This was our main reason for revolting against Britain and that does not correlate to us being founded on religious mandates or Dogma. It speaks to us being the same Capitalists then that we are now. Only then, all we wanted was to have some sort of representation for what we paid, we did not want it for free, we did not want all taxes to stop, we did not wait for God to step in and save us. God was not a reason we revolted from England. It may have been a reason the Pilgrims came 150 years earlier, but not the reason for revolution.
No state sponsored religion shall exist. US Constitution First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." No litmus test for office about religion (US Constitution Article 6 paragraph 3). These mean, believe what you want, but don’t try to hold everyone else to the same standard. What exactly is so desirable about having a leader who believes the end of time in eminent? Logically, this would mean that person could care less about our needs as a society, or whether we do anything to better ourselves as a nation because God is on his way anyway to end all of this and get the Zombie Armies marching soon. I would much rather believe in a future that we control, or have a hand in than just throwing my hands up to the will of a being who has never made itself known or proven to have done anything for anyone.
To some of us we are getting tired of the constant speculation that religion is under attack. We have an alternate view: religion is less wanted or needed; therefore we are starting to buck back against religion and its intolerance of us. We are not attacking religion anymore than it attacks us. If religion can sponsor big Butter Jesus:
then we should be able to sponsor billboards without fear of them getting slashed or burnt. http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/06/29/1531934/atheist-groups-billboard-vandalized.html
and you would fully expect us to believe in your God? That is funny. We did not burn down Big Butter Jesus, God did. We do not claim we have a power and knowledge above anyone else, because we believe that is arrogant and ignorant. We are just humans. Like everyone else. So, the next time you think your religion is under attack by the atheist crowd, and we are trying to get you to stop believing and take God out of everything. Just think that there may be a few of us who just don’t want your God in everything. We want to be left alone. Remember: Religion is best taught in the home. Your home, not mine. I prefer Aesop's Fables.
they were truly religious men because of their faith in the orderliness of the universe.A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.
The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge.
True religion is real living; living with all one's soul, with all one's goodness and righteousness.Albert Einstein
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ReplyDeleteFirst thought 20%... Really? According to whom? What credible source does this come from? Is there an agenda behind it? As bad as some of these groups want to convince us they are a force to be reckoned with, aren’t they essentially doing the same thing as many organized religions? Look at us! Acknowledge us too. Give us a box and an identity too. “You Jesus Freaks are not better than us!" It reminds me of the atheist campaign on Washington DC buses around Christmas. (can't insert a pic and don't want to clutter up the blog with a long link)
ReplyDeleteNow I ask this. Are you are saying that 20% is enough to swing the vote? That’s assuming the 20% is not splintered amongst themselves which is probably the case; especially on something so emotionally driven. I have issue with combining two huge factions of people into that 20%. Those who do not believe in a God with those who do not subscribe to a religion, to me are two separate beasts entirely. Particularly the 2nd. The struggle for faith and what one’s place is in the universe is ever changing. Many people have become disillusioned with organized religion at some point in their lives. They leave, they come back, they have children and often to return wanting to give their kids that sense of tradition, structure or morality they experienced as children. I don’t know too many cradle to the grave Catholics for example. I suppose when you see people that seem so sure of their beliefs you feel they somehow must have an edge over you, who are constantly questioning the world around you.
For a Politician I feel by stepping up to the stage and professing your “faith” preferences immediately alienates a lot of voters. They are saying, “If you don’t think like I do, then your voice or opinion doesn’t matter.” As a leader of our diverse country you are to follow the laws not your “sense” of what would Jesus do. So go ahead and split the votes Ms. Bachmann because you have immediately disenfranchised millions of voters and you’ve barely stepped out of the gate.
I would prefer a politician that ascribed to something more in line with Friedrich Nietzsche -“He who has a why can endure any how”
In the end I think it’s about tolerance of people’s differences. We need to celebrate our countries diversity. That is what our country is about. In my humble opinion of course.
As to the Pledge of Allegiance; I do feel that what NBC did amounts to censorship if its proven it was done on purpose. I get the Pledge has been changed over the years and that’s fine; but since when is it the job of some Media outlet to arbitrarily edit something so important? Report the Damn news as it unfolds. Don’t create it as you go!
Alas I am not a biblical scholar and I don’t take the bible literally enough to argue the deeper points behind the 10 Commandments.
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ReplyDeletePEW RESEARCH, 2007:
2007, Pew Research Values Study: Percentage of people identifying themselves as atheist, agnostic or "no religion" by year of birth:[1]
Date of birth <1946 : 5%
1946-1964: 11%
1965-1976: 14%
1977+: 19%
It's worth noting this study was conducted between Dec. 12, 2006 and Jan. 9, 2007, over the course of the most religious time of the year (Christmas, Hanukkah, Qwanza, etc.) - This seems the absolute worst possible time to poll for average religious affiliation and not receive exaggerated results! If during Christmas time, almost 20% of people under the age of 21 don't believe in God, can you imagine how much larger the percentage may likely be normally, when all of society isn't celebrating a religious season? --Pile 12:13, 2 September 2007 (CDT)
2006, Harris Interactive poll, United States, France, Germany, Italy, England & Spain: US - 4% atheist, 14% agnostic [sic], [2]
2004, University of Akron poll: 16% non-religious, 11% "atheist or secular"[3]
2002, Pew Research: identified 13.2% of Americans as "non religious/secular"[4]
2001, American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS), NY City Univ: 14.1% identified as "non-religious"[5]
1995, Encyclopedia Britanna: 0.3% atheists, 8.8% "non-religious" (also according to Encyclopedia Britannica, in 1900 there were "0%" atheists in America)[6]
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Yes, 20% is enough to swing a vote, or at least be recognized as not needing religion crammed down our throats. The rest just answered my thesis for me. These are not Christians even though they may state they are in polls etc... It is a lifestyle much like being Gay. You either are, or you aren't no fence playing with your eternal soul.
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Agreed, and see Goldwater comment at the top of the post. I also agree on tolerance. However, if I am not tolerated, then my level of BS taking is minimal at best. The pledge had 2 words added once, it has not been changed many times. It was during the Red Scare from one of Bachman's fellow statesmen, McCarthy.
NBC may be guilty of censorship, but so is the Kansas board of education who says "Intelligent Design" needs to be taught next to Evolution. There is no science behind one, and all the science in the world behind the other.
I don't see a problem letting "intelligent design" in. In this age of information, its good for kids to know there are complete idiots and different schools of thought. If I had my way those Westboro Baptist morons would get ZERO facetime and I refuse to even google them. They don't deserve one extra site "hit from me. lol
ReplyDeleteThey are proponents of Intelligent Design. I don't agree with teaching bunk. That is like teaching part of the science class as if the earth is still flat because of the Flat Earther’s. Westboro is just crazy and attention hounds. I have a long winded article I can write about them as well...lol
ReplyDeleteJust because Intelligent Design is bogus in my opinion its still worth noting them. Not like a chapter but what's wrong with mentioning it?
ReplyDeleteMy understanding of the ten commandments is this. The first commandments refer to one's relationship with God and the rest refer to one's relationship with his fellow man. I read the Bible not so much literally as a guide to smart living. Believing in a force bigger than myself that is on the side of Good makes me feel good. How we treat each other says more about our own character than it does about the character of the people we treat. I get angry when politicians use religion as a power play. My faith is between me and God and hopefully guides the way I behave not out of fear but out of integrity. A pastor whom I really respect said that if we truly believe in Jesus then we should filter what we read through the new testement. Jesus said that the greatest commandment was to love one another just as we love God. This is the principle that guides my life. A nonreligious twist on this is do you treat those below you the same way you treat those who have power over you?You have the right to believe in no God. I just don't want it to become freedom from religion rather than freedom of religion. Our founding fathers saw first hand the damage caused by politicians who used establishment of a state religion to slaughter all those who opposed them. When we worship anything we become controlled by it. We all worship someone or something: the question is who or what.
ReplyDeleteWell put atruesdell1. I especially liked: "You have the right to believe in no God. I just don't want it to become freedom from religion rather than freedom of religion."
ReplyDeleteI think it is on both side equally. I should be allowed to have the freedom from religion in our political Realm. In everyday life, teach your family what you want. I just think we who don't believe should have the right to have the same unencumbered way of expressing our dislike without fear of reprisals as much as you should be able to worship without fear of reprisal from me.
ReplyDelete